explains how he left the jws.
paranoia agent
JoinedPosts by paranoia agent
-
-
-
67
How do you feel about religion as a whole?
by FatherFirst init just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.
just curious, a personal poll if you will.
what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?
-
-
paranoia agent
Religion has its benefits. For one it functions as a placebo, helping people face hardships and the such. Then as a social aspect, it's cheaper to regulate people of the society than law and police.
But religion can also be the cause of deaths, discrimination and bad prejudices.
biblical fundamentalists for example, has to deal with their cognitive dissonance regarding science. I'm quick to point out to those that claim the bible not to be errant, that the sun does not revolve around the earth. The conversation from here on is rather pointless, but you can understand the problem religion causes with disconnect of communication. It's like politics.
then the religious, just like jw's, have their how faulty view of themselves as having the higher moral ground. I heard at "at least she's a Christian". The person who said this is known for her gossip and pettiness. They delude themselves in thinking of something they don't understand as being right. Moral absolutes coming from a God that out did hitler.
to combate these problems, it does not come from atheism or theism. It comes from humanism, philosophies of life and the understanding of moral psychology.
jhine: here the Salvation Army board members wants gays dead. There also was a scandle of how they use their money, and their prejudice to other non-Christian people.
-
13
A brilliant psychologist
by voodoo lady ini've been seeing a brilliant psychologist.
he has been pivotal in drawing the parallels between my jw upbringing - specifically the hypocrisy i saw as a child - and the reason i've tolerated lies and inconsistencies in my most significant adult relationship.. i've seen one other psychologist in the past.
she didn't get the issues surrounding the religion whatsoever, didn't regard that aspect of my backstory as relevant, and was of little help to me.. has anyone else seen a psychologist - whether for help with coping in the aftermath of leaving the religion, or for seemingly unrelated issues that actually turned out to be related?
-
-
paranoia agent
Psychologist know a lot, but psychology really is also an art. Some have it and others don't. The same with people of the public, you have to suspect psychologists of their biases and shortcomings. That is why I tell people to switch if they feel that their psychologist does not understand them.
As for psychiatrists, I see no need for them unless the patient is suffering from clinical depression. All they do is categorize you for a drug they think you should take. But this wont resolve the problem to the full extent. For books on this read Cracked, The Book of Woe and Saving Normal.
-
18
Abortion?
by Protarded inscenerio.
your daughter gets pregnant.
your little girl whom you've invested your life and love.
-
-
paranoia agent
Let her make the choice. -
102
A couple questions for atheists on Suffering
by little_Socrates inwho told you that the world should be free from suffering?.
do you find any value in suffering?.
do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?
-
-
paranoia agent
Who told you that the world should be free from suffering?
Do you find any value in suffering?
Do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad? Isn't good only good because we know what bad is? If there was only good would it really be "good"?
If you where God and could eliminate suffering what would the world look like? Or conversely if there was a loving God what should we expect the world to look like?
If you think about it, a world without world suffering would be nonsensical. Let me put it this way, you can't know light if there never was darkness. In the same manner you couldn't know suffering without happiness.
Now in the real world we do things with little regard to suffering. We hunt and eat animals. We defend our countries, etc. Cognitively we have tools that deludes us from reality, inflating our ego (evolutionary psychology has a lot to say on this). It's just that we make ad hoc and a priori excuses for them.
So I would like there to be a world of less suffering, and this is viably possible to some extent in our world from our time if I am to disregard those with brain deficiencies that cause depression, bipolar, schizophrenia and the such. I see a need for global harmony and anti-nationalism as did Einstein and Nietzsche.
Now if I was god that is a difficult question. Even if a god did exist it would be subjected to the laws of logic. After all god couldn't create a squared triangle, but happiness and suffering are harmonies to logic. So i hope that from this you understand that we are all chained to the laws of mathematics, of nature.
-
2
Book reviews by Steve Hassan
by paranoia agent ini have a small blog space which i do really short book reviews that i have read.. the latest entry are books by ex-cult councilor steven hassan.. http://psychbookreviews.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/combatting-cult-mind-control-ccmc.html.
-
-
paranoia agent
Thank you ABibleStudent
Probably not. I mean I don't mind if it shows up in the library or if someone is willing to donate it for a couple of months.
-
2
Book reviews by Steve Hassan
by paranoia agent ini have a small blog space which i do really short book reviews that i have read.. the latest entry are books by ex-cult councilor steven hassan.. http://psychbookreviews.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/combatting-cult-mind-control-ccmc.html.
-
-
paranoia agent
I have a small blog space which I do really short book reviews that I have read.
The latest entry are books by ex-cult councilor Steven Hassan.
http://psychbookreviews.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/combatting-cult-mind-control-ccmc.html
-
4
FEAR
by paranoia agent inwatch, wath it all.. .
http://youtu.be/o-vlhnpwju0.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-vlhnpwju0.
-
-
-
10
To understand cults we need to start understanding ourselves
by paranoia agent inthere are books out there that talk about why it is so difficult to convince someone that they are wrong.
hassan and singer specifically address destructive cults.
hassan refers to cult members under mind control and singer under thought reform.
-
-
paranoia agent
A metaphor Jonathan Haidt used in his book The Righteous Mind is that the mind is composed of two parts, the elephant (automatic processes - intuition) and the rider [of the elephant] (controlled processes - reasoning). The rider can do little to control or persuade the elephant, and can only think ahead of what the elephant will do. The key here to understand is that intuitionalism comes first before rationalism.
Recalling Hume, the rider is the servant and the elephant is the master. Elephants can be open to reason when discussions are not hostile, or they will lean away making the rider work frantically to rebut the opponent’s charges.
JW’s teach that we are hostile, it is no wonder that it’s difficult to convince let alone engage with a jw.
Thanks OneEyedJoe
-
10
To understand cults we need to start understanding ourselves
by paranoia agent inthere are books out there that talk about why it is so difficult to convince someone that they are wrong.
hassan and singer specifically address destructive cults.
hassan refers to cult members under mind control and singer under thought reform.
-
-
paranoia agent
There are books out there that talk about why it is so difficult to convince someone that they are wrong. Hassan and Singer specifically address destructive cults. Hassan refers to cult members under mind control and Singer under thought reform. They both imply the same thing; there are social psychological factors at play that shapes and controls a person’s reasoning without being perceived by the victim.
However, when reading these books I always wondered whether Hassam and Singer were being hypocritical. That is Hassan divided two ideologies, one that uses coercive persuasion and the other that respects the individuals views. Singer did the same in her book Cults In Our Midst. Check the link - http://factnet.org/mind-controlbrainwashingthought-reform-exists - scroll all the way down for a good explanation on the differences between cults and religions.
I agree that there are differences, however I have associated for a while now with other theists and there appears to be similarities. For example there are sociocentric and individualist cultures. Sociocentric places needs to groups and institutions and lesser to the needs of individuals, while individualist cultures places needs on individuals. Cults and political parties like the national socialists, Marxism, and certain countries that practice Islam are all sociocentric, and so are other religions that think as groups whether its protestant, orthodox and catholic. Taking this into account we can make an important point on how the Jehovah’s witnesses base their morals, they are totalitarian, they are sociocentric, they are all for the borg and nothing for the individual. Some religions are more extreme than others. But unlike Hassan\Singer, can we make a distinction between certain sociocentric ideologies?
Ever since these books have been published a number of peer review articles have been made to expand on this issue on how to convince others that they are wrong. It started with the story abouts the wolf that change its mind. Freud taught the conflicts between the ID\ego\super ego. Festinger expanded with Freud with his scientific theory of cognitive dissonance. Gilovich found how commonly we resort to confirmation bias. Ariely did some socio economic scientific studies on people and found that we are not rational. Tetlock concluded the we persuade ourselves, and there are more, but the point being is that we are irrational.
There is a cult component yes, but there is also a YOU component that we need to understand. Atheists are not free from this, it doesn’t discriminate, it’s a human thing. It’s sociobiological and environmental. The core problem comes from our reasoning.
David Hume was the first to find this flaw - reason is and ought only to be the slave of the passion, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them.